Mashup: The Myth of the Nice Guy

[quidditchgrrl]

nmalfoy posted today about her social life. A friend on MySpace claims "nice guys" are a dying breed (HA!), but of course, the myth still remains:

Girls just don't like "nice guys."

I'm adding my own take to what's contained in this Craigslist post - please read it first, then

If you feel like I'm piling on the "nice guys," you get a gold star!  Let me state: I'm not saying, by any stretch, that women are perfect, or their motives are as pure as driven snow.  We've all got baggage, but I'm pointing out those who seem to think that everyone else is their personal valet.

My experience with "nice guys" is that they carry a HUGE chip on their shoulder.  The sense of entitlement that being a "nice guy" overshadows any endearing personality traits they might possess.  "Nice guys" are, by and large, insecure assholes looking for a girl to emotionally manipulate in order to feel better about themselves or to increase their mental standing vis their friends.

So, ladies, you agree to go out with that "nice guy," thinking this time you're gonna do it right, and date a "nice guy".  Or he's worn you down by asking you out repeatedly, because a "nice guy" can never believe that you really mean no when you say no.  Especially when you've said it a half-dozen times.  Maybe he's given you the "I don't understand why girls don't like me, I'm a "nice guy," but girls just don't like "nice guys"" speech and you feel a little guilty because, hey, the stereotype fits in some ways.

There's the first hallmark of the "nice guy":  he can't accept the word no.  Just like a toddler, no means ask again, or wait and ask again later, not "oh well, I wonder if there is anything I can improve on and bring to the table later to convince her I'm worth it."  They whine, they plead, they cajole, they pout and they sulk.  "Nice guys" don't consider no an invitation to examine their own behavior:  they look at it as a failing on your part.

This lack of acceptance of the meaning of no can become sinister when you're dealing with a "nice guy" who thinks that a girl should be impressed with his money/car/status/job/spending/body/schlong/whatever and those things, if offered to her, are rejected.  I had a friend in college who would buy a woman a drink, then get enraged when she would thank him, chat for a few minutes, then nicely refuse the offer of another drink or a date.  You'd think he'd just shelled out $500 on a five-star meal, the way he went nuts.  Yes, yes, he would say, back at the table:  "I don't know why girls refuse to even look at a "nice guy" like me!"

Well, let's see:  you bought a woman a martini so you could chat her up, spent the conversation dropping hints about how you were such a power player at work and how much money you made.  I'd never heard this guy ever ask a woman where she was from, if she came to the bar often, or what she did for a living.  Sometimes, if she was really pretty, he'd call her a bitch under his breath as he walked away - but loud enough, of course, for her to hear.  And sometimes, she'd get up in his shit, and sometimes, she'd just roll her eyes, obviously relieved he was gone.  Sad, pathetic, but he's not the only "nice guy" I've known who follows this method.

Another sad-but-true fact about "nice guys" - they're boring.  True Nice Guys know they have something to offer a woman lucky enough to like them back, and they don't base their ego on what other people think.  They've cultivated their personal interests and dabbled in other things, too - whatever it is they're interested in - but allow room for new experiences.  Nothing kills a guy dead in a woman's eyes than being a) a complete know-it-all and b) a complete stick-in-the-mud when there's something cool and/or interesting to do.  "Nice guys" don't have range - they can't talk about more than a couple of things, and if the conversation turns to something they don't know/aren't interested in, they will inevitably turn the convo back to whatever they want to talk about.  If they can't turn the conversation the way they want it, they either sulk or say/do something stupid to gain attention.  When an opportunity arises that might be outside of the realm of the "nice guy's" experience, he will find some way to back out of it (or go into complete-know-it-all mode).

So, ladies, you're out on the first date with your "nice guy."  Conversation has stalled, because without your usual crowd, there just isn't much to talk about.  Or, worse, your "nice guy" won't shut up about WoW or his love for horses, even though you told him that you don't game and you've never ridden a horse.  No, worse! - you're trying to hold up your end of the conversation and he's sitting there, head in hand, with a bored look on his face, not bothering to even play along.

No woman wants a man whose entire range of interests consists of "let's play video games" and "let's watch TV."  Nor do they want someone who agrees to join them, then spends the time pouting or refusing to participate.  Either you're in, or you're out, but the "nice guy" doesn't want to put himself out there.

Those guys who say, "I want someone who will accept me for me and never try to change me" - they're gonna end up unhappy and/or alone.  People change and grow with people they accept and love.  It's natural.

"The stereotypical “Nice Guy Who Finishes Last” (NGWFL) is not nice at all, but resentful, envious, negative, hateful boy who blames every failure on outside influences and thinks a relationship with you is going to make them complete human beings."

TOO RIGHT.  They are not focused on you, they are focused on their ego and how others see them.  Emotional manipulation is the hallmark of the "nice guy" - remember, they hold that title like a badge of honor - and if he can't produce positive emotions in you, the "nice guy" is not above creating negative emotions, just so he can feel that he is in control.

The words "passive-aggressive" have always been paired with "nice" in my mind, mainly because when one behaves in a passive-aggressive manner, they will always claim that they were "just trying to be nice!" when they are called on their bullshit.  How many times has a "nice guy" turned suddenly cold, slamming things around and refusing to answer your (obvious) question - "what's wrong?" - and keeping it up until you're as upset as he is?  You don't have to be his girlfriend to have experienced this - anyone who's had a "nice guy" boss can relate.

While a "nice guy" can be truly nice to his friends and the focus of his affection (at least at first), they aren't always so nice to people they don't consider worthy.  They ignore people who work behind counters, don't use common courtesies, hurl insults - but they love you, of course.  Everyone is up for evaluation and judgment - and you're next.  Don't think that he's just "being nice" when he mentions that you could stand to lose a little bit of junk from your trunk.  If he'll mention something that doesn't matter, just wait until his ego's actually being threatened.  Then the gloves will come off.

The date hasn't been a rousing success - you regretted saying yes from the moment it left your lips, the conversation wasn't stellar, he undertipped on his part of the bill, and made fun of the older woman with the bad eyejob - but he seems to think it's gone great.  In fact, he wants the two of you to go out again, soon!

Oh, shit.

Don't buy into his hopeful, puppy-dog look, or let him convince you that he was just nervous (I have personally never had a first date with a LTR that went badly) - you know that it's not going to get better.  If he wasn't keeping up his end of things when it counts most, no way is he gonna improve in time.  Cut him loose with something kind - "You know, I just don't see us going anywhere with a relationship" or the old standby, "I think we should just be friends."  Don't let him manipulate you, guilt-trip you, or (OMGWTF) insult you into a second date.  Just say no.  And walk away.

'Cos a "nice guy"?  Is just an asshole in a oxford shirt with less sexual experience than the last asshole you dated.



Think I'm full of it?  Want my list of really-nice-guy traits?  Don't care?  Love your "nice guy"?  Tell me!  :)

Comments

[authenticjoy.livejournal.com]

That's not a nice guy. That's just a common, garden variety, egotis-maximus asshatizon who says he's a nice guy.

In my experience, nice guys hardly ever know that they are nice guys. They just are.

[quidditchgrrl.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY!

[snoopypez.livejournal.com]

Agreed completely. :D

I adore nice guys. Er, the real kind. ;P

[chickadilly.livejournal.com]

Nice guy? He sounds like an asshole to me.

I know lots of REAL nice guys who don't go on and on like this.

[leonina.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I can't believe I wasted half of a relationship defending the "nice guy" to my friends when he was a total ass.

[nuclearpolymer.livejournal.com]

I have to agree that the men I know who complain about how women don't like nice guys actually have serious personal issues that would make them poor dating candidates. I mean, just because you're nice doesn't mean a woman has to overlook all your other psychotic traits. And the guys I know who I would classify as actually being nice, and who aren't nutcases? They don't end up alone.

[tonksnymphadora.livejournal.com]

I have dated the "nice guy" and he is really just an asshole. Actually, a physically abusive asshole.

Damian is a really nice guy. The kind who holds the door open, brings home stray animals and who has a beautiful heart.

*hearts him* He likes to think he is a bad boy. Oh no. He is wonderful!

[authenticjoy.livejournal.com]

So many of the guys I dated liked to think they are "bad boys" when they were actually just big mush hearts who melted at the site of a kitten.

I'll take the 'bad boys' over the 'nice guys' any day. It's what's behind the facade that counts.