All right, that's it
Apr. 5th, 2004 10:53 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
quidditchgrrlI've been debating about getting this off my chest for some time, but after seeing ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ladyanabelle get stabbed in the back after venting a little (and it's really an...insignificant isn't the word...I guess her rant seemed more impersonal to me), I'm ready to vent my spleen (or should that be gall bladder?).
First, a disclaimer: No, I do not consider myself anything like a BNF, nor do I look upon that designation with favor, other than the fact that it can be interpreted to indicate a long-time contributor to a fandom.
ETA: BNF = Big Name Fan, a term usually used in a negative/jealous way.
This is going to be long, so be forewarned.
First, an introduction to my growing crankiness.
I've not been in this fandom that long. I came in on the tails of seeing Sorcerer's Stone, reading the books and happening upon a link to ffnet in December 2001.
Back then - indeed until October of 2002, when ffnet purged itself of NC-17 fic - it seemed the fandom was pretty much a conglomeration of people. Nearly everyone posted at either FA or ffnet. Shipping sites were fairly few and far between, and run mostly by individuals. Fiction Alley was the public place where ship wars were hashed out, and there fans of differing ships got to know each other through the forums and through working together on various projects. It wasn't all about what you shipped all the time.
Now, things are a bit different. Shipping sites are common, and there are people who never leave their 'ship' and explore different pairings or speak to proponents of other ships in anything but a confrontational manner. Whatever their 'anti-ship' is, they dehumanize them and say all manner of snarky things. I picture these folks - those on CM who have the 'I'd rather [insert nasty thing here] than ship H/H' come to mind - sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting 'la la la' while worthwhile points are made about other ships. Points that might expand their understanding of characterization and broaden their scope while reading canon. I know that participating in different ship-based threads/chats and reading lots of pairings has given me a lot to think about while re-reading canon. And these people revel in their ignorance of other viewpoints and treat non-shippers with mean-spirited disdain, at best.
Back to the idea of "BNF" status. Think about those people that are long term, positive contributors to the fandom at large. Theheidi8's and melissa_tlc's of the fandom. The lissinthecity's and madlorivoldmort's.
You will not become a BNF by:
1. Hanging around Fandom Wank and making snarky posts or commenting ad infinitum to every HP wank coming around the bend. Be part of the solution.
2. Making snarky posts in your LJ. Thoughtful discussion makes you a lot more friends.
3. Spending all of your time reading/writing/discussing one or two ships and hanging out at only one or two sites. Why not read some well-written R/Hr if you're a die-hard Pumpkin Pie shipper? The trailer and JKR chat had me distracted for days, pondering the fact that both R/Hr and H/Hr shippers use many of the same scenes to 'prove' their ship is THE ONE. It's not like you have to love other ships, but being well-rounded makes you a better conversationalist, fandom-wise. Do you know any 'BNF'-er who only ships one or two ships or reads only one or two pairings? Prove me wrong here.
4. Playing one person against another. Say you're filtered into a LJ post commenting on the 'Hermione double-standard' in fanfic, a post based on an asinine review left for a story. Instead of taking note of the little padlock - or perhaps being maliciously inspired by it - you cut text from it and email it out for other people to look at, in or out of context. Wow, what a great 'friend' you are! That kind of action is sure to win you tons of respect. *cough*
5. Making enemies of other people in fandom. As mentioned above, it's a little bit tougher now to work extensively with lots of different folks if you're not on FA or heavily involved with multi-shipper groups, but handing out a cyber-bitchslap in response to a simple question makes you look like an ass.
To me, the BNFs - man, I hate that term! - I think of as being truly 'big' are the ones who, over time, have contributed to the fandom in general. They started open, welcoming sites, contributed to intelligent discussion, wrote great fanfic that appealed to lots of folks, moderated, beta-ed, and are nice people overall. When they get angry, they say so. When things go well, praise is openly given to those who deserve it. Boundaries are respected, smackdown given as appropriate. They aren't perfect, not at all. But their 'fame' wasn't overnight - they worked very hard to make the fandom a better place instead of trying to catapult to 'BNF' status from one mean-spirited LJ post.
Wow, I'm not bitter, am I? :-|
Feel free to leave your anger here, tell me how I am wrong and point out my hypocrisy (and trust me, I see little pieces of myself in the above too). I'm game. There's a lot of negative feeling associated with the term BNF, and a good deal of envy as well, I'd wager.
ladyanabelle get stabbed in the back after venting a little (and it's really an...insignificant isn't the word...I guess her rant seemed more impersonal to me), I'm ready to vent my spleen (or should that be gall bladder?).First, a disclaimer: No, I do not consider myself anything like a BNF, nor do I look upon that designation with favor, other than the fact that it can be interpreted to indicate a long-time contributor to a fandom.
ETA: BNF = Big Name Fan, a term usually used in a negative/jealous way.
This is going to be long, so be forewarned.
First, an introduction to my growing crankiness.
I've not been in this fandom that long. I came in on the tails of seeing Sorcerer's Stone, reading the books and happening upon a link to ffnet in December 2001.
Back then - indeed until October of 2002, when ffnet purged itself of NC-17 fic - it seemed the fandom was pretty much a conglomeration of people. Nearly everyone posted at either FA or ffnet. Shipping sites were fairly few and far between, and run mostly by individuals. Fiction Alley was the public place where ship wars were hashed out, and there fans of differing ships got to know each other through the forums and through working together on various projects. It wasn't all about what you shipped all the time.
Now, things are a bit different. Shipping sites are common, and there are people who never leave their 'ship' and explore different pairings or speak to proponents of other ships in anything but a confrontational manner. Whatever their 'anti-ship' is, they dehumanize them and say all manner of snarky things. I picture these folks - those on CM who have the 'I'd rather [insert nasty thing here] than ship H/H' come to mind - sticking their fingers in their ears and chanting 'la la la' while worthwhile points are made about other ships. Points that might expand their understanding of characterization and broaden their scope while reading canon. I know that participating in different ship-based threads/chats and reading lots of pairings has given me a lot to think about while re-reading canon. And these people revel in their ignorance of other viewpoints and treat non-shippers with mean-spirited disdain, at best.
Back to the idea of "BNF" status. Think about those people that are long term, positive contributors to the fandom at large. The
heidi8's and melissa_tlc's of the fandom. The lissinthecity's and madlorivoldmort's.You will not become a BNF by:
1. Hanging around Fandom Wank and making snarky posts or commenting ad infinitum to every HP wank coming around the bend. Be part of the solution.
2. Making snarky posts in your LJ. Thoughtful discussion makes you a lot more friends.
3. Spending all of your time reading/writing/discussing one or two ships and hanging out at only one or two sites. Why not read some well-written R/Hr if you're a die-hard Pumpkin Pie shipper? The trailer and JKR chat had me distracted for days, pondering the fact that both R/Hr and H/Hr shippers use many of the same scenes to 'prove' their ship is THE ONE. It's not like you have to love other ships, but being well-rounded makes you a better conversationalist, fandom-wise. Do you know any 'BNF'-er who only ships one or two ships or reads only one or two pairings? Prove me wrong here.
4. Playing one person against another. Say you're filtered into a LJ post commenting on the 'Hermione double-standard' in fanfic, a post based on an asinine review left for a story. Instead of taking note of the little padlock - or perhaps being maliciously inspired by it - you cut text from it and email it out for other people to look at, in or out of context. Wow, what a great 'friend' you are! That kind of action is sure to win you tons of respect. *cough*
5. Making enemies of other people in fandom. As mentioned above, it's a little bit tougher now to work extensively with lots of different folks if you're not on FA or heavily involved with multi-shipper groups, but handing out a cyber-bitchslap in response to a simple question makes you look like an ass.
To me, the BNFs - man, I hate that term! - I think of as being truly 'big' are the ones who, over time, have contributed to the fandom in general. They started open, welcoming sites, contributed to intelligent discussion, wrote great fanfic that appealed to lots of folks, moderated, beta-ed, and are nice people overall. When they get angry, they say so. When things go well, praise is openly given to those who deserve it. Boundaries are respected, smackdown given as appropriate. They aren't perfect, not at all. But their 'fame' wasn't overnight - they worked very hard to make the fandom a better place instead of trying to catapult to 'BNF' status from one mean-spirited LJ post.
Wow, I'm not bitter, am I? :-|
Feel free to leave your anger here, tell me how I am wrong and point out my hypocrisy (and trust me, I see little pieces of myself in the above too). I'm game. There's a lot of negative feeling associated with the term BNF, and a good deal of envy as well, I'd wager.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:25 pm (UTC)It stands for "Big Name Fan", with a negative connotation most of the time.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:13 pm (UTC)I hope you are feeling better!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:28 pm (UTC)I'm going to beg them to remove my gall bladder. If they refuse, I may force the issue by eating nothing but double cheeseburgers and french fries!
Or maybe not. Blef. :-&
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 04:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-07 03:20 pm (UTC)had mine done 6 years ago. was the best thing i ever did! i didn't realise how awful it had been until it was out. good luck with that.
ps - a body pillow really helps you be able to get into a comfortable position until all that air is out of you!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-07 06:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:37 pm (UTC)*snickers*
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 08:51 pm (UTC)The whole
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 09:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 09:21 pm (UTC)If you look at the crush meme (<http://www.example.com/>) I have put my thoughts down there.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-05 09:41 pm (UTC)I've seen a lot of negativity toward people who have guidelines on what they want to read. What I don't understand is why. Sure, it's great if you want to read any and every ship out there, but if you don't, what's the harm in that? It's a personal preference that shouldn't determine if you're likable or not in the fandom. I have a friend, actually, who won't read slash just because a) she just doesn't like reading it and b) she doesn't think it's canon. She's gotten quite a lot of shit for it which is a shame. If she doesn't want to read it I don't see how that puts her below those who do. And I'm not saying that's what you're saying, I'm just noting that I've seen that kind of reaction and it bothers me.
In the end a lot of us (myself included) aren't in the fandom to be BNFs or to be everybody's friend. We just like reading some kinds of fanfiction and making a few friends along the way. I have nothing but respect for the people who read all kinds of fanfiction and try to make the fandom a better place but in the end I think it just boils down to the idea that this is supposed to be fun and it shouldn't have to be about trying to broaden your horizons to different ships unless you, as an individual, want to. To me there's nothing wrong with sticking to one ship, just as there's nothing wrong with playing the field, provided you allow others to do what they want without complaint.
On a side note: About the people who do the "I'd rather (fill in the blank) than ship H/Hr;" the majority of them are perfectly nice people who are just kidding around. If some people find it offensive, I think that's a pity, but most of the people who do that don't do it to be offensive or rude at all. It's just something they joke about. Not trying to say it's alright, just trying to point that out.
~Just Call Me Devil's Advocate
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 08:30 am (UTC)I have always felt that being well-rounded was important - not that you have to read slash or all pairings or anything that you don't like - but it does help if you are venturing out of your shipping site to understand where other people are coming from. That's where mono-shippers tend to stick their foot in it.
Probably 95% of the fandom has no interest in being 'popular' but that other 5% seems hellbent on becoming a 'BNF' thinking that it's some kind of contest or high school all over again. 8-|
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 08:44 am (UTC)On a completely unrelated note: I heard you had some great Hermione/George fics. Where might I find those? Sara's Before the Dawn got me curious. ~T
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 08:52 am (UTC)It's up with most of my other stuff at RS.org.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 01:42 am (UTC)I hear ya on this. I understand where you're coming from. *hugs*
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 02:42 am (UTC)I keep to a small circle of websites and writing so I had barely even heard of fandom wank until then.
The whole thing is so hurtful and dumb... I don't know you would expect adults to behave better wouldn't you?
On a brighter note--the sun is suppose to shine in Ohio today. LOL.. Kings Island opens Sat. and I'm officially on vacation as of Sunday!
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 04:17 am (UTC)I personally don't give a shit what people think about my ships. I read a variety of them,but there are things that squick me,slash being one of them. I never insult people,I never play with other people's feelings,I don't get involved in shipping threads and I never comment in my LJ about ugly things that people do. Certainly I won't go ranting my friends post to the fandom pretending to be the Good Samaritan. The situation you described (the one that happened to Annie) causes me utter disgust.
So anyway,I'm having a spiffing time being who I am in this fandom. Sometimes I get disappointed by the wankage,but then I just forget about it. I've read tons of fics,I've made so many friends,I'm really having the time of my life. I couldn't care less about BNF,I'd actually prefer to be one in RL,so you realise the internet and fandoms aren't going to help me do that if I spend my time trying to be popular.At least not when I'm 23.
But yes,to those who have set themselves such 'high' goals (sorry,but I just can't help it) I'd suggest them to read your post carefully. You have made some very true and valid points. At least after reading that,they might want to become BNF in a beautiful kind of way,like the people you've given as an example,and not like others who only know to create drama and chaos,believing they're doing something worthwhile and worth-respecting. Those people are just sad.
Sorry for the rant.
~Lina
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 08:40 am (UTC)Well said. That sums up my feelings on things very nicely! I don't consider drama queens BNF-types; they're just mean and riding the coattails of that.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 05:58 am (UTC)*gives cookie*
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 08:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 09:57 am (UTC)Well said.
All of this wank recently, from the traditional bashing of TDT and the other big name writers, to the more serious personal wanking has truly saddened me.
S
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 11:07 am (UTC)You know, just thinking about that makes me want to buy cookies for all my fellow mods at FA brave enough to watch over the SCUSA forums.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-06 10:20 pm (UTC)As someone who has been a so-called BNF in a different fandom, I am more than happy to toil in anonymity in the HPverse. I don't get the shipper wars at all...how can people get so angry about something that will likely not been seen in print for YEARS, if at all?
As for Fandom Wank, seems like they can't even enjoy wanking on the wank together without fighting among themselves anymore. God help you if you try to post anonymously: clearly you're a TROLL and not just an occasional lurker without a code.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-07 06:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-08 10:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-19 11:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-19 11:02 pm (UTC)