quidditchgrrl

In defense of James Frey, what's the difference between his book and this one?
The difference is Frey's book sold over a million copies just in 2005. And he was on Oprah. And lied to Oprah. It's okay to stretch the truth in memoir for literary purposes, flat out lying is different.

So? Is it because James Frey made himself into such a bad-ass, no-fear character? Maybe because he flipped the finger to AA (and amen to that)?
What's wrong with AA?

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From what's been coming out today, publishers don't typically check facts in 'memoirs'. I bet there are a LOT of authors who are shaking in their shoes (and calling their agents).

Lying in any form sucks, though. If he'd come straight out and said, "hey, I used some license, no big deal", Oprah might have spared him. They shouldn't pull the screenplay or movie, though. It'd probably be great on screen.

You know who should be really mad about this? Librarians! Now we might have to go back and reclassify and recatalog this book as fiction! :P

All I can say about AA is that when you look at the definition of "cult", AA matches it in nearly every single aspect. It's a group that encourages the victim mentality and keeps people from dealing with the true issues of alcoholism - low self-esteem and poor coping skills. I could go for days about AA.

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From what's been coming out today, publishers don't typically check facts in 'memoirs'. I bet there are a LOT of authors who are shaking in their shoes (and calling their agents).
No they don't. They hire legal vetters but not fact-checkers unless it's reference publishers. I don't think the average writer has to worry, so long as they're up front about what is real and what's not when questions are raised.

All I can say about AA is that when you look at the definition of "cult", AA matches it in nearly every single aspect. It's a group that encourages the victim mentality and keeps people from dealing with the true issues of alcoholism - low self-esteem and poor coping skills. I could go for days about AA.
Erm... ok. If it helps people get sober, then who are we to judge?

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I agree totally. Publishers shouldn't have to go rooting around checking facts and they shouldn't have to wipe egg off their faces when the author lies about lying.

The problem with AA is that it DOESN'T help people get sober. The one thing Frey did get right is that only 10-15% of people who enter AA are "successful," meaning they remain sober for one year. It's not the only way to conquer an addiction, but it's the one that's been latched onto. TPTB steadfastly refuse to treat alcoholism and drug addiction like OCD or eating disorders, because it involves so much time and energy, a rebuilding of the psyche, so to speak. And we don't respect alcoholics or drug users like we do people with other mental health issues. Pretty unfair to ask people to submit to something that 8 out of 10 people will not be able to find useful in their day to day lives.

So, that's my $0.02 on AA. It works for a few, but there are no other "acceptable" options for the remaining 85%.

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The problem with AA is that it DOESN'T help people get sober.
It helped my aunt. That's all I care about right now.

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And so goes America.

The problem is AA only works short-term. Most alcoholics have other problems that aren't suited to the sort of short-term group behavioral therapy that AA offers. It might have helped your Aunt long term, but for most people it doesn't. It's a widespread problem that people need to be aware of and most are not.

Many (like I was) are self-medicating when they drink to excess on a regular basis. Quitting through AA is difficult, but it can be done. Unfortunately, once the initial euphoria of success wears off, the original pattern of brain chemicals begin to creep back into place and the alcoholic is left with the original disease. Most can't withstand the onslaught of severe mental illness and return to alcohol or drugs. They need something else to alter the pattern of chemicals in their brain.

In addition, not everyone who is ordered by courts to go to AA is a theist who believes in a "higher power", therefore, turning your life over to one is useless. It's like turning your life over to a desk or something.

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And so goes America.
Gee, thanks. I'm sorry that my aunt has quit drinking in a way you don't approve of. You've opened my eyes now. She's been sober for nine years now. But since you know there's a better way for her to quit, I'll tell her to start drinking agin so she can do it the right way. Gee, I hope she dies like my grandmother and uncle did.

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lemniskate.livejournal.com

it's the baby with the bathwater thing. Don't you know, because it's not perfect and because it doesn't work for EVERYBODY, no one should even try AA. Not that I believe those statistics without a verifiable source, I still bet the people who do successfully quit drinking thanks to AA are pretty damn glad it exists.

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I never said that it didn't work for some people. For some it is enough. For some intensive group behavioral therapy is the right thing. I absolutely believe in that. In fact, I specialized in it for a bit. But for the majority of people with a mental illness who are using alcohol or drugs to self-medicate, it isn't going to cut it.

Why are you over-reacting to something that is so clinical? I simply have a problem with people who think that AA is a panecea for all alcohol related problems. It isn't the cure-all that Americans seem to think it is, despite what anecdotal evidence shows.

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I never said that it didn't work for some people.
Actually I rather though the statement "The problem is AA only works short-term." was rather close-ended.

I am reacting to someone who I don't know coming to preach to me. I never suggested it was a panacea. My family has had a long problem with alcoholism. I realize that AA does not work for everyone. My uncle tried it many times and it did not stop him from dying. No treatment works all the time--not even for problems which are not so complex in origin. But that alone does not make it a program worth abandoning and hating.

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But, when you are under 30...
I'm sure that's my problem.

You are relating on a very personal level.
It's a personal issue, is it not?

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Bingo. Many of the people who enter AA need professional help with psychiatric help.

There is absolutely no way that AA is going to be able to help them. AA does not work the way that people seem to think it does. I do not understand where AA gets the reputation for working. It only works in the short term.

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This is why I don't think alcoholism is a disease - it's a complication or a symptom of something that goes much deeper, whether it's simply lack of self-esteem, severe depression or psychosis.

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Exactly. And everyone responds to various therapies differently for each illness. That's why the court sending everyone to AA is absolutely absurd. If someone thinks it will work for them, it probably will.

However, people need to be aware that their alcoholism may be part of a larger problem. I'm all for people being a part of AA and seeing a therapist and/or a psychiatrist for underlying causes. That's the best of all worlds because it will probably be the most successful all around. And it will be the least painful for the alcoholic.

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thursday-last.livejournal.com

The only difference is that the poor bastard's book was chosen by Oprah, that's all. He published this book like 2 years ago and all that time passed without incident until Oprah decided to bring him up on the pedestal with her.

I still think that Frey kicks ass and the book was a very enjoyable read; I don't care that it's not 100% fact--I don't expect memoirs to be completely true anyway. And Frey doesn't set himself out to be a martyr. He openly admits that he was a fuck-up. He's just been given the opportunities to change that.

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thalialunacy.livejournal.com

Yeah, that's my take on it too, to the letter. My distrust of AA influences my 'siding' with Frey, but still. Talk about mama-drama over nothing new, man. Creative license is an age-old concept, and people lie themselves a new face on television all the time. Sigh.

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That's the really sad thing. Cassie Bernall isn't setting herself up to be a martyr either - Mommy is doing it in her place.

My big problem with it is written quite nicely by one of the reviewers below it:

And contrary to what many other reviewers have written, this DOES matter: the story has been used to slander atheists and agnostics. Many people who uncritically accept the tale of Cassie's martyrdom assume that the killers did not believe in God and therefore believe that everyone who does not believe in God must be like the Columbine shooters. This is a slander against everyone who does not believe in God; everyone who cares about the truth should not spread this type of misinterpretation.

This is all too common.

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Too true, too true. It made me sick when her mother and father hit the talk show circuit, playing the God card for all it was worth. So crass.

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This is how shit like this gets started too. People are unwilling to look at things uncritically when someone is obviously inside or outside of their God belief system. The same sort of shit is going on everywhere in the world except Asia proper. It's as if everyone has all gone mad.

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rebeccasama.livejournal.com

I think the big issue is that Frey embarassed Oprah. ;)

I do dislike the fact that he made up a few things, it's a lot different from the standered memoir "truth as the author sees it." I guess it's a difference, too, that Bernall's story was written by someone else.

I highly doubt it would have had so much backlash if Oprah hadn't picked it for her little club.

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Too true. I'm sure Frey was shaking in his Burks when his book got picked.

I don't think TPTB should pull his screenplay and movie deal, though - I'm sure this would make a great movie no matter if it's 100% true or not.

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